Hamilton Bank Note-Completed & Framed!

Larry White · Post by **Larry White** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:36 pm

The photos in this post became disassociated with the text.
The photos have been re-added into a post titled, Hamilton Bank Note reverse glass sign Step-by-Step.
It had to be broken up into 5 parts due to the fact that the maximum number of pictures in any post is 12.

-Larry

Kelly Thorson · Post by **Kelly Thorson** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:05 pm

How right you are Larry, and I'm sure you will do it justice.

I'd love for you to share your thoughts on different ways of approaching this. I know you will consider and reject a number of different angles. If you would care to share some of that process and some of the different methods you consider I'm sure it would be very valuable to some of us who are new to this. It is mindset that definitely intrigues me anyway.

Lots of lovely elements there.

Billy Pickett · Post by **Billy Pickett** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:45 am

...That's a pretty one. It has lots of tiny details that I'd like to see how a master would render.

...I'm really interested in how someone would do the portrait. I am currently trying to figure out how to do a reverse on glass, goldleaf portrait (that looks convincing).

DAVE SMITH · Post by **DAVE SMITH** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:32 am

I think what ever you come up with Larry will work real nice.
Would be good to tackle the pictorial by scanning the image at high res possibly on a specialists scanner to get the detail then screening the image leaving a real fine printed image ready for colour blends.
All depending on the original quality of your artwork. You could also clean it up in Photoshop and print it out then attach it in the normal way with varnishes etc Good luck look forward to seeing the stages on this one.

Dave uk

Kelly Thorson · Post by **Kelly Thorson** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:43 pm

Thanks for doing this Larry.

Scroll work & ornaments- Depth carved, tinted, and water gilded Rouge gold.

Can you fill me in on the results of this? Does the water gild on sandblast have much difference in appearance to an oil sized gild?
Is it possible to clear the frosting by using acid in the deepest blast in a depth carved area?
That would add a nice dimensional effect if the deepest areas were clear with the frosting up the sides. Or is the tint in a clear base that serves that purpose?

I'm sure there are examples of all of the above, maybe I need to take another Cyber trip now that Mike taught me to navigate.

Larry White · Post by **Larry White** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:17 pm

Well, you can't readily water gild over sandblasted glass, it just doesn't stick. It has to be sealed first. I prefer to use Frog Juice as it is optically clear. After it's sealed, it can be either water or surface gilded. A water gild yields a nice bright gild, but it will never be a mirror finish gild. It will, though, be brighter than a surface gild.

The above letters were done in this method.

An HF treatment to a sandblasted area yields about the same thing as sealing it with a clear. It will never go back to an optically clear polished state, and it's a heck of a lot safer to use a clear.

-LW

Kelly Thorson · Post by **Kelly Thorson** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:35 am

I don't wish to knock a product, but I've had personal experiences with Frog Juice yellowing noticeably when exposed to UV. Granted the amount of exposure an indoor piece will get is far less, but isn't this a concern? Or will it remain optically clear when sandwiched between glass and gold (does the clear require oxidation to cause the yellowing)? Is there an alternate product that has proven itself over the test of time?

Mark Fair · Post by **Mark Fair** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:27 am

Beautiful work Larry!!!

Kelly Thorson · Post by **Kelly Thorson** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:48 pm

Hey Larry,
Do you feel like you are talking to yourself?
In case you were wondering, I'm still with you.
I've been following along, but sometimes without feedback it is hard to know if anyone is paying attention. Therefore Teach, we are looking forward to seeing the next step.

How are you handling the sand carving of the pine cones (I think that's what they are)? I've been curious about that.

Larry White · Post by **Larry White** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:28 pm

Good, I'm glad you're still with me... The "pine cones", or are they artichokes?, will be carved in a "progressive peel" method. I'll start at the bottom row and carve the tips and let them fade to a surface etch at their base, then peel the next row and do the same, all the way up. This way, you don't have to put any of the masking back in. They end up looking kinda like this... but the ones on this sign will be better.

For anyone new to this site, and interested in these techniques, I previously posted a step-by-step on a La Belle Supreme cigar sign. It can be seen at: La Belle Sign
...and there's another one on my website Rick Glawson commemorative sign

vance galliher · Post by **vance galliher** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:08 am

thanks for making the effort to show us what and how you're doing this piece Larry. It's invaluable to us that work with glass and aspire to do your quality of work ! I'll be here till the end.......

Sarah King · Post by **Sarah King** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:41 am

Larry,

I think a lot of us are following this carefully - great work - well taught - and much appreciated.

Kelly Thorson · Post by **Kelly Thorson** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:51 am

Are you still carving that glass? You must be clear through it by now!
Hurry back Teach, the guy behind me may be quiet, but he just dipped my pig tail in the ink well.

Post by **Danny Baronian** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:44 am

Ron Berlier · Post by **Ron Berlier** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:29 pm

Sir Larry -

What excellent work, as always, and nice details of all the processes you are going though to complete this piece.

It is always a pleasure to see your fine craftsmanship both in process as well as completed and I know all those that visit this forum are very appreciative of the effort you are going though to share what you are doing. You are a very good teacher and Iâ€™m certain your mentor would be very pleased.

By the way, you are keeping track of the hours spent on this one, right.

Ron

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:48 am

I think the original art is fantastic. It gave me an idea for a web image. but, I doubt that I can execute it with the same skill that you are applying to that piece of glass. And I didn't read anywhere that you are doing this for any pay. AND, sharing this project blow by blow, with your fellows, I find to be absolutlely insane! This is real inspiration. what a gift.

Larry White · Post by **Larry White** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:13 am

Freely given to me... and freely passed on to you. It's MY pleasure, glad you enjoy it!

Thanks!

(Photos altered to 400pixel width, 12-28-05)

Sarah King · Post by **Sarah King** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:40 pm

WOW! And thanks.

Larry White · Post by **Larry White** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:38 am

Updated original post 1-4-06. -LW

If anyone has any questions about this piece, feel free to post a reply.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:56 pm

I was wondering what happens to the left over gold foil? Do you trash it? How much money do you have for this thing? And, do you plan to make the sign look just like the illustration?

Larry White · Post by **Larry White** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:10 am

Any of the gold that isn't attached to the glass gets collected into my skewings box. I have recently employed the brush removal technique for removing the excess water gilded gold and there is really no way of retrieving that small amount of gold.

This sign is being created for my own personal collection and has no budget. I figure I'll have about $450 into it by the time I'm done. Not counting the frame. The cost just goes along with the craft.

It won't look "just like the illustration", as the illustration is very monochromatic. The finished sign will be very brilliant and sparkling. I will however attempt to keep it all within a certain color pallette. But as for the design, it will be exactly like the illustration, as my base art was traced off the original illustration.

Thanks for asking.

Kelly Thorson · Post by **Kelly Thorson** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:50 pm

If those pictures are any indication, you are getting some wicked dimension showing in this piece. I like the way you have utilized both glazes and color to amplify that. How thick is the glass and how deep is the actual carving?

Larry White · Post by **Larry White** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:41 am

This piece is done on 1/4" thick extra-clear Starphire glass. The depth carving is about 1/8" or so deep. The use of accentuating the depth carving with a glaze as a shadow was a new technique to me. That's the way it appeared in the original lithograph, so I thought I'd try to replicate it. It came out quite nicely. There is also some nice contrast between the mica powder areas and the water gilded areas. Whenever you finish depth carving like this, it needs to be done with a metallic finish. Otherwise, the depth carving gets lost. Water gilding over the sealed sandcarving will yield the most brilliant finish. Mica, or bronze powder, or leaf surface gilded into gold size will yield the second most brilliant finish. And, just painting the sandcarving with metallic paint will show the depth carving, but has the least brilliant finish. All three are useful techniques in rendering depth carving.

-LW

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:28 pm

Well, this thing just blows me away ever time I look at a new installment in this thread about your project. I had a couple of posts under Guest. And I really can't explain why I'm so interested in this. I once started to make a stained glass window which never got done. Maybe I've been sitting in front of a monitor for to long. I might try making a few fonts in the styles in the illustration. I know these pictures won't do it justice. It must really pop IRL. Anyway, if you should ever decide to sell it, I'm sure some banker or money collector will pay big bucks for it. How did you find the artwork? Did some person just have it hanging on a website wall, or did you find it in a shop of some kind?

Larry White · Post by **Larry White** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:26 am

Updated with Step 8 (1-17-06).

This art was seen in "A Magazine About Letterheads", and, knowing the publisher, I was able to aquire a larger, more usable image of it.

Some advice, finish your stained glass project. When it's up on display, you will enjoy looking at it and you will always be reminded of the fun and satisfaction you had in creating and completing it.

Well, football season is almost over. So is my TV viewing season. So soon I can be a bit more productive.

More advice, turn off the TV

(and/or computer) and make something with your hands.

-LW
"Your Role Model of Productivity."

John Yarnell · Post by **John Yarnell** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:45 pm

Mr. Blake, this piece is looking truly amazing, and your walk through is very very motivating. You make me feel like such a slouch some times, and I keep pretty busy. Iâ€™m looking forward to sitting down with you soon and laying down some gold. I hope you will have the Hamilton done by the time we get together next.

Larry seriously though, thanks for all the time and effort you devote to keeping this great craft alive.

Your pal Mr. O

Larry White · Post by **Larry White** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:27 am

Ahh...shucks

The nice thing about it is, that anyone that really wants to learn this craft, can!

Finished up step 8 (1-19-06).

Jeff Lang · Post by **Jeff Lang** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:15 pm

Larry,
What a beautiful, complete job. Thanks for sharing the thorough process, step by step. I'll bet you have inspired many, you've surely inspired me.
Jeff

Kelly Thorson · Post by **Kelly Thorson** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:32 am

An inspirational journey, I picked up lots of tips and ideas, and eagerly awaited the next step. I know it took a lot of time and effort to document the entire process. Thanks for your dilligence and for sharing. I'm almost sad to see it come to the end. I'll be back there some day to see the real thing!
You have done your mentor proud. I hope that makes you smile.

BruceJackson · Post by **BruceJackson** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:41 am

A great example of the art, Larry.

I just happened along this post and have spent the last hour following it through in detail. There are several aspects of it I really like. As others have noted, you have explained your methods well too.

I notice you used tinted shellac as a glaze. I have not been keen on shellac on glass. I generally prefering tinted gold size. How do you find it for adhesion over time?

I note you made a fine pounce for the small bright-gilded lettering as a back-up guide. When doing this type of lettering I tick out the lettering on the back of the gold by re-applying the (reversed) pattern with a sheet of carbon paper and going over with a 4H - 6H pencil. If done without much pressure I find it gives me a nice crisp guide with no build up. Wearing a white shirt helps when reading the lines on the reflective gold.

For those who recognize my name: I haven't been regular reader lately, only checking in every month or so. Not through disinterest, but just through lack of time to browse my old haunts on the Internet.
Last year was a very interesting year with some great projects.

Hamilton Bank Note-Completed & Framed!

Hamilton Bank Note-Completed & Framed!

Gilding Depth Carving

Optically Clear?

t t t talking to myself...

I'm listening also......

You still there?

Dimension!

Larr Bra your doing it again