Posted by Robert Beverly on July 02, 2003
So...
has there been a definate product to replace the pacer glue Rick used to sell?
I used frog juice with poor results and Mike had mentioned a glue that was light activated.
I was curious as to if there were any safe...sure methods found to match or get close to the results found using pacer. That stuff was great...and I am torn between other products now.
Any opinions?
Doug Bernhardt
Lee LittlewoodGreat discussion....And has been something i looked quite closley into also. Past experience....third.... a third.... a third! Now like Rick was a convert to the frog juice...just spread it onto both surfaces and get it on...no putzing about. Holds like no tomorrow and stays clear unlike cyano and super-glue. They DO fog and the boss was bang on in his choice of substitutes!
i've been using clear film adhesive, I'm not sure of the brand. Mactac and others i think sell something like it
what you want is UV resistant, used for mounting digital prints to kiosks and bus shelters. It has a layer of clear adhesive between two clear carrier sheets and seems to come in lots of sizes.
We don't have a lot of sun in Portland so we may not be a real test, but shell has been up for 3 years and looks fine.
The other mod I've made is to use the thin laminated shell, available in lots of different kinds of shells.
When you get your rectangle, either fine sand it or spray clear Deft lacquer on both sides - this really brings up the brillance. Usually there are good or great areas on both sides, but i tend to pick one side as the front and then
(trick:) adhere black vinyl over the back side- this will bring up the colors, you betcha (you can try other backing colors, sometimes a red or green will be just the help the shell needs).
Now you have a sheet of shell you can cut with scissors, as the vinyl will hold any cracked pieces together.
But wait, there's more: now peel one of the carrier sheets from the adhesive sheet and stick adhesive on the front of the shell.
Now what you have is a piece of shell, encapsulated between two sheets of vinyl (easy to cut with scissors), which you can apply to the glass by peeling the front carrier sheet off the adhesive.
Since it is thin and flexible it is easy to apply without the dreaded air bubbles.
You always want to line up the shell where it can be seen at it's best angle -
with my big sheets of shell I can mess around on the outside of the window till i find an area of shell that looks good and mark it with stabilo,
then do another area and so on till I've optimized all I can. Always mark with an "UP" arrow on the black back 'cause that's what you'll be looking at when you apply the shell.
I've even made fairly elaborate shell "decals" and mailed them to be applied to a window in a different city, since all the applicator needs is to be fairly proficient with thick vinyl applications. (Of course i've never seen how it looked, but I think it was ok.)
I just love the look of shell, and I think that the laminate gets the most use out of a precious natural resource. Mike has a couple of wonderful links to shell suppliers in the Esoteric Suppliers listing.
Roderick
Robert BeverlyWhat kind of probelms have you had with frog juice?I've used it alot and had no probelms.Maybe if you try to adhere the inlay to soon it melts the paint so you have to let it dry really good.Also I' ve used damar with dryiers or old thickend varnish and don't forget epoxyies the work great too.
Roderick
Mike JacksonRoderick and Lee
Thanks for the great info
My only thing was I got hooked on the great adhesion of pacer glue and the dry time...and I have gotten bubbles over larger areas.
I am just trying to cut down on those kinds of issues....just trying to hold it down to eliminate air under larger surface areas has been a real challenge since I no longer have access to the pacer.
Danny BaronianRobert,
You can talk to the guy if you want, but the tech at their industrial division at PacerTech (they make all the superglues you see everywhere) told me that would be the WRONG material to use on glass to hold abalone to glass. Whether you find it or not, I am convinced it is not a correct solution. He suggested the UV light sensitive glues...but you should still be able to glue abalone using the same materials they have been using for 100 years if all the new high-tech glues turn out to be insufficient.
Mike,
You're correct about the cryo glue not being the right material. Talked to Pat today, he was down at Esoteric within the last week and looked at pieces Rick used the cryo on, and noticed it delaminating and curling up.
If I remember correctly, Rick began using Frog Juice to apply mop.
I also learned from Pat why I was having a problem with the UV glue, since I bought the light unit and glue you suggested. It will adhere the mop but any glue around the edges or glue that oozes out around the edges will never dry. I didn't understand why until Pat said the glue will only cure with UV in the absence of oxygen, so the glue not covered will not dry. He uses a UV glue from Locktite to glue glass to glass. In some cases the glass has to be in a evacuation chamber to provide the proper cure / bond.
Lee Littlewood's post on this subject has some interesting suggestions. As he has suggested, using clear mounting film to mount mop or for that matter prints - makes sense. It has UV inhibiting properties, and is optically clear. I've had prints up for several years with this type of film with neither discoloration or delamination.
I'd be interested in hearing other thoughts or suggestions.
Danny
Jeffrey P. Lang
Danny BusselleRobert,
I have only done this once, but it has worked just fine. I bought the glue at an auto parts supply for gluing a rear view mirror plate onto the glass. It is very clear & will set fairly quickly (15-20 min.). Also inexpensive & easy to get.
Jeff
Danny BusselleOOps...I also I Tried Demar Varnish and it also works. just to make it more confusing.
Robert BeverlyI heard Pros and cons on this subject.http://www.loonoutdoors.com/newproducts.html this stuff is uv type I Just Used some HC150 on monday I Use Only a drop an spread it around. then put back in Frezzer. Your Goning to have to make up your own Mind.
Danny and all
Billy BobI guess your hc150 is the pacer product...yes?
I have also used the varnish but with less than great results when I make the comparisons. I am just concerned about removing any air and something that would dry quicker than the 10-20 mentioned.
I have just purchased some that I will be trying..
Thanks
Robert
John StuddenRick used to sell a "superglue" type product for adhering shell. Eventually he started recommending using "regular old" quick drying varnish instead.
Just brush it heavily on the shell and press it into place. I use a pencil with a rolled up piece of tape on the end to carry the shell.
WHEN GLUING MOP SHEETS I LIKE TO CLEAR LACQUER
THE WHOLE SHEET, CUT A PIECE A LITTLE LARGER THAN
THE AREA NEEDED, ROTATE TO FIND THE BEST REFLECTION AND MARK THE TOP ON THE BACK. I NORMALLY USED PACER 150 (NO LONGER AVAILABLE)
AND APPLIED A FEW DROPS ON THE VERY OUSIDE OF
THE SHELL, HOLD ONTO THE GLASS/PAINTED AREA FOR A FEW SECONDS & IT DRIES REAL FAST.
BECAUSE THE SHELL HAS BEEN LACQUERED IT APPEARS TO BE ATTACHED TO THE GLASS PERFECTLY, WITHOUT ANY AIR BUBBLES, WHEN THIS IS DRY I BACKED IT UP WITH A PIECE OF REFLECTIVE SILVER VINYL. WORKS REALLY WELL, THE REFLECTIVE VINYL HELPS THE SHINE.
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