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Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

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Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

Hi guys, its me Marvin from Nicaragua, I want to show you the coolest and the best hand held triger sprayer for those that don't have a Silvering gun or are going to be silvering small mirrors, I have used Normal hand sprayers but its kind of hard to use them as you have to use two individual hand sprayers and try to pump them at the same time using both hands, that makes it very inconsistent as there are may variables like, rate of pump, incorrect angle and un even attomization...

so here comes US Patent 5152461 trigger sprayer which selectively draws fluid out from two containers

Her is the Patent descriptin and how should look like
Image
Image

Now here you can see Alsa Corps own silvering kit(just to show it can be use on silvering applications)
Image
Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

the cool thing is I just saw a guy using this type of hand sprayer at my job, he was cleaning windows with it using a Clorox cartriges, I will ask where is he geting it from, as I just cant find it at stores.. :cry:

Edit: that's how I got the Patent, it was on the bottle, I could not believed my eyes.. I must have it.. I will have it... :x
Robare M. Novou
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Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Robare M. Novou »

And you will have it...if you send your money to:

http://www.excelsuppliesonline.com/brow ... ,2059.html

RMN
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What's On Your Book Shelf ?

http://www.milwaukeesignworks.com
Robare M. Novou
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 11:18 am
Location: Milwaukee
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Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Robare M. Novou »

What's On Your Book Shelf ?

http://www.milwaukeesignworks.com
Robare M. Novou
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 11:18 am
Location: Milwaukee
Contact:

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Robare M. Novou »

What's On Your Book Shelf ?

http://www.milwaukeesignworks.com
Robare M. Novou
Posts: 424
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Location: Milwaukee
Contact:

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Robare M. Novou »

And Last but Not Least...if you gotta have it...Go to the Source:

http://www.proschoice.com/html/dual_cha ... oting.html

RMN
What's On Your Book Shelf ?

http://www.milwaukeesignworks.com
Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

Sir...YOU ARE AWESOME.................... :o




Thanks.... :mrgreen:


Edit yet again: that means anybody can get it if they are in the U.S.A....I will still get in contact with the guy here in nicaragua as the price double or triple if I bring them from the U.S.A
Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

finaly they put a video of them silvering with the hand held sprayer.... should be no different if one use angel gilding chemicals instead of Alsa's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvyuwhJC ... re=related
Bill DeBekker
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:52 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Bill DeBekker »

Found another supplier.. Might have to order a few of these to try out. $15


http://www.brothersmfg.com/product1304.html
Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

for those that cant see youtube videos...

a printscreen shot of it
Image
Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

guys I just ordered the FX pump system from Alsa and ordered from the links provided to me here. also ordered from angelgilding their silvering chemicals and the Siphon Table kit. I´ll be doing some test and I´ll be placing my results here
Patrick Mackle
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Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Patrick Mackle »

Have you found that the pump sprayers do a better job than a silvering gun, or is it to keep the start-up investment at a minimum?
Is there a recommended clear coat to protect the silver from tarnishing?
Maybe you could do an updated youtube video of the process.
Pat
erik winkler
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Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by erik winkler »

Ismael,

I really admire your stamina. It is good to see that you do not give up on your quest.
Like Pat I would also be very interested to know what your view is on his questions.
If there is anything I can help you with, just give me an email.
Do you (or anybody else) know what fluid they spray after the silvering with the hand pump at 8:00 seconds in this video?
Youtube silvering a budha
They said it was some 'anti tarnish chemical'; well i would like to know what it is.

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

Patrick Mackle wrote:Have you found that the pump sprayers do a better job than a silvering gun, or is it to keep the start-up investment at a minimum?
I believed to be both... I was having issues with my air compressor, too much moisture and Oil, even with expencive filters and all. to mee its one less variable I have to work with... and to keep cost down ofcourse. I´ll be getting a Silvering spray gun from India. seems to be the same one used by alsa. you can also buy it from the same ebay seller. its going for $280 same as the basic silvering gun sold by paasche, but this one seems like a premium product. I got a discount whith the Sensitizing gun as a kit. 260 for the silvering gun and 150 for the sensitizing gun. free shipping. :wink: I plan on using them with Compressed Dry Air Cylinders(2000 psi).

here is the link for the ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230720390826?ss ... 1423.l2649
Patrick Mackle wrote:Is there a recommended clear coat to protect the silver from tarnishing?
Maybe you could do an updated youtube video of the process.
Pat
I´ve found that most high quality automotive(Crystal clear, not the yellow one) 2k urethane clears can work. the Alsa ChromeFX kit comes with their own clear. I´ll be testing it agains automotive clears.
erik winkler wrote:Ismael,
I really admire your stamina. It is good to see that you do not give up on your quest.
I´m to hard headed to know when to quit or to give up..
erik winkler wrote:If there is anything I can help you with, just give me an email.
thanks alot erik, I´ll contact you ok.
erik winkler wrote:Do you (or anybody else) know what fluid they spray after the silvering with the hand pump at 8:00 seconds in this video?
Youtube silvering a budha
They said it was some 'anti tarnish chemical'; well i would like to know what it is.
Erik
I have spent alot of time trying to find out what´s that "special" anti tarnish chemical, I know some companies use them(gold touch cosmichrome is one of the big names using it) but so far I have nothing, not the slightest clue. but I know other companies don´t use them. alsa is one of them, Peacock labs(Pchrome) dont´use them.. to me the key to a tarnish free silvering its the prep job and how well does the Clear stand up to the elements.

one note on the peacock labs chemicals, they are a 2 step process now(seems to be the only ones doing this) meaning you dont have to mix 2 chemicals before making contact with the reducing agent... I was thinking in getting them also to test them against Alsa and AngelGilding chemicals..BUT the guy in their how to videos(Sean smith) is now using AngelGilding products(tried to contact him to see why he did such movement but he did not responded to my emails) but seems he gets the same results but at a much better price for his business

I bought a few other Items I´ll be testing also. a Plug and Plate Copy Chrome system from Caswell.(I´ll be using it to plate the silvered plastic items). Alsa new Stretch Chrome film. to see how well does it stretch and perform. some chrome like powder coating powders and chrom like seramic coat(for heat tolerant chrome like paint) also a small Innate Chrome paint system(with clear and all to compared)

I did all of this with a $500 a month wage. but all I eat is rice and beans... :lol: it helps that I don´t have kids yet..
Kent Smith
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Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Kent Smith »

One issue we isolated some years ago at Chromatic was a consistent source of tarnishing with clears and other coatings. The variable is in the solvents. Many petroleum based solvents such as mineral spirits contain significant quantities of sulfur. Most automotive grade two component urethanes and most single component pure acrylic coatings do not have a sulfur contamination. Just be aware when using reducers and other additives that common petroleum distillates typically contain sulfur and other contaminants. For those using asphaltum in their process, be certain to remove residue of solvents. Note that mirrors which were backed with asphaltum varnish the reducer was pure spirits of turpentine.
Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

Kent Smith wrote:One issue we isolated some years ago at Chromatic was a consistent source of tarnishing with clears and other coatings. The variable is in the solvents. Many petroleum based solvents such as mineral spirits contain significant quantities of sulfur. Most automotive grade two component urethanes and most single component pure acrylic coatings do not have a sulfur contamination. Just be aware when using reducers and other additives that common petroleum distillates typically contain sulfur and other contaminants. For those using asphaltum in their process, be certain to remove residue of solvents. Note that mirrors which were backed with asphaltum varnish the reducer was pure spirits of turpentine.
thanks Mr. Smith. have you tried plating over the silvered surface? I´ll be doing this test with my CopyChrome Plug and Plate Kit from caswell.
erik winkler
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Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by erik winkler »

Ismael,

You must understand that the silver on glass is very fragile and will scratch even with a soft wond.
I do not think this will work on silvered glass, unless you put the glass in a galvanisation bath.

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

erik winkler wrote:Ismael,

You must understand that the silver on glass is very fragile and will scratch even with a soft wond.
it depends on how strong or good the sensitizing(stanous chloride) formula is. I have had plastic spoons silvered which withstood a lot of rubbing from my thumb, I was trying to see how good it had grip the surface and to my disbelief it did´nt even scratch.. while another spoon that lacked sensitizing was barely touched and it was badly damage

erik winkler wrote:I do not think this will work on silvered glass, unless you put the glass in a galvanisation bath.

Erik
I plan on silvering a splastic spoon, and then latter I will plated using the Plug and Plate kit, which is a very small plating kit that allows you to rubb plate metal things..
Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

..sorry wrong thread
Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

I found a video of a similar product I will be testing, but the way the silver is apply its the same(dual chamber hand trigger sprayer)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lG6O5lvhm8

Nice
Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

guys check the video, in the end the guys show how well the silver sticks to the painted surface. he tries to rubbed off and it does not come off at all, he tries a duct tape over it and its not coming off either, I have this effec too and thats why I think I could brush on plate it with copychrome(Nicke tunsten bluish alloyd that resemble chrome but is not toxic at all)
Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

I just got my hands on my package(saddly I didnt receive the dripp table from angelgilding) and I will be testing Asla products against AngelGilding products..

here is the face off( I know they dont use this product YET but the chemicals will go thru the Stain Magic sprayer)
Image
Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

Guys I have bad news... I did a sampler of both products just so I get to know them before the big show down.. the samples were done in my favorite testing piece! the "Plastic" spoons....

but guess whats the bad news? alsa sent me the wrong chemicals and they labeled them wrong(I had to use my nose, yeah I know its not a good way to do it).. and I did´nt find out untill I had used the chemicals, they were just not reacting and when placed together in a single jar(so they could react) they didn´t react at all, heck I did one experiment using the silver nitrate chemical(was misslabeled as part C) using tap water to test for chloride Ions(found on all tap water as they have chlorine added to the water) you can read more about this test here http://www.tis-gdv.de/tis_e/misc/silber.htm

well I did the same test on all chemicals and none tested positive

so, for now(I´ll try to contact them to see what´s up, but I am not holding my breath on returns to NICARAGUA) I´ll will not be able to test the Alsa "Spray On Chrome" FX pump chemicals...

I did test for the angel gilding chemicals and so far they are doing just fine..

Pics will folow soon... :(
Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

Silvered Spoons using Angel Gilding chemicals(so far their sensitizer seem to be their weak link, I´ll explain later)

the spoons have been cleared with a water based sealer for temporary protection(will later use 2k Clear coat)

Image

Image

Image
Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

updates...

well I talked to Alsa corp and they are going to be sending me another package, so its going to tak a while before I can test their silvering chemicals(they are 2 stage chemicals now)

I was able to silver a few plastic spoons with Angel Gilding silvering chemicals, they turn out very nice..

here are a few pics.(would love to have them in their website)

Image

Image

and a small video(can´t display in this forum)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vEEnn4Nxpk

I did test Alsa special clear(was tinted) and its amazing, it nullifies the yellowing of the silvered surface. what I did is take the clear to a paint master mixer(40 year pro) and have him copy the exact color.. and I have tested and it works..
Robare M. Novou
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 11:18 am
Location: Milwaukee
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Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Robare M. Novou »

Here is a video that might interest you.

I wonder if you can do this on reverse glass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToviVvpSfro

There is also this Video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI8aPaHI ... re=related
What's On Your Book Shelf ?

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Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

hey guys seems like the folks at Angelgilding(I am a happy customer so far) are now selling dual chambered hand triger sprayers also, this was not the case a while ago when I was building my small DIY Spray On chrome system in january.. its a bummer because I could have seaved a dollar on the bottles and $13 on shipping... :lol:

here is their sprayers..
Image
Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

well guys I graduated from Plastic spoons to motorbike plastic parts... :lol:

here is a Motorbike Headlight cover before the "Spray On Chrome"(using Angel Gilding chemicals and wetting agent which helped me alot)

Plastic Headlight cover(prep using Krylong Fusion as glue for the base coat, what you see here is the system ready for the chrome. so it has the basecoat), keep in mind that if you start with a mirror like basecoat you will end up with on, but if your basecoat its dull and scratch.. you will end up with a dull scratchy mirror..
Image
Image

now with the Spray On Silver(I will upload a video of the pumping process)
Image

Image

Image

Image

here is Short video of the Drying process
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmd_LLVl ... ure=colike

I hope you guys have enjoyed my small tutorials..

thanks

Marvin
erik winkler
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Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by erik winkler »

Yes you did it!
Just got a big smile on my face.
Love it when a plan comes together.

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
Ismael Alvarado
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Silvering with Hand Held Triger Sprayers

Post by Ismael Alvarado »

Thanks.. Hard Work, Dedication.. :)

Final Video..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PKJsZX1Lt4
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