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Blending behind glass problems

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

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erik winkler
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Blending behind glass problems

Post by erik winkler »

I hope someone can help me, recently I have blended one shot behind glass and got some drying problems.
I used one shot, a little smith's cream and a few drops of boiled linseed oil.
Turned the glass with the paint side down, not to get any dust on it when drying.
When it was drying, it all wrinkled up.

These are photo's of the reverse side of the glass.
CIMG6749.JPG
CIMG6749.JPG (41.08 KiB) Viewed 11167 times
CIMG6750.JPG
CIMG6750.JPG (49.44 KiB) Viewed 11165 times
CIMG6752.JPG
CIMG6752.JPG (48.24 KiB) Viewed 11168 times
How can I overcome this problem?
Is it maybe because I hanged the glass paint down?

Thanks,
Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
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BruceJackson
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Re: Blending behind glass problems

Post by BruceJackson »

it's just that your paint layer is too thick. The only solution is to keep it a bit thinner.

Unless of course, you had some recently applied paint already down and then worked another layer on top of it. If this is the case, next time, leave the oil out of your first layer, put in a drop of drier, and give it more time to cure before you re-coat it. And keep the addition of any thinners in the second coat to a minimum.

Another reason this happens, is if you force dry too much. Did you have a heater on it? The surfaces skins over and it's still wet underneath, especially if it's a thick layer, as it appears to be in your photo.

As for this job. I assume you are going to look at it from the other side. right? If it looks good from the other side, don't worry about it. No one's going to see the back of it.

I've never used Smith's cream, so I don't know what it does.
erik winkler
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Re: Blending behind glass problems

Post by erik winkler »

Bruce,

Smiths cream is a medium used to keep the open time of the one shot longer, so I can blend without it drying up too soon.
After the blending layer was done, the next day I saw that light was coming through, so I did an extra layer of the same mix on top of it after one day.

Because of the blending i can not take the oil out of the first layer...?

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
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Roderick Treece
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Re: Blending behind glass problems

Post by Roderick Treece »

Looks like you rushed it.
I never use Smiths cream. Never liked it. I use Winsor Newton Liquin. It work great and has alot of dryiers in it when I do use it. Alot of times I just use one shot straight. Bruce is right on all points. You didn't let the first layer dry completely before applying the secound.
erik winkler
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Re: Blending behind glass problems

Post by erik winkler »

Roderick,

Thanks for replying.
Which one would you suggest, because they have several:
Liquin

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
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Larry White
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Re: Blending behind glass problems

Post by Larry White »

Hi Erik-
I do like to use Smith's Cream. However, I like to use Japan paints rather
than OneShot enamels. I mix up my paints and do the blend (background)
as outlined here, Signmaking 101: Blended Backgrounds.
After the blended background is thoroughly dry, I'll go over the entire area
with the middle value color, without any additives in the paint.

Never used much OneShot on my pieces, I mean, I never have.

Looks like you got your paint on a bit thick......
but I don't know......

Endeavour to Persevere!

-Aho!



.
Kent Smith
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Re: Blending behind glass problems

Post by Kent Smith »

Besides too thick a film, the oil and Smith's cream kept the paint from drying enough. Smith's cream is basically hydrogenated linseed oil (think vasoline technology) used as a blending medium. Consequently, there is just too much oil and the paint has sagged because of it. Adhesion to glass is iffy at best and a self drying blending medium would work better.
bob gamache
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Re: Blending behind glass problems

Post by bob gamache »

Eric
I agree with all of the above.
Straight 1 shot or adding Liquin is my choice.
Let it dry at its own rate, take your time, try not to rush it.
Bob Gamache
Doug Bernhardt
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Re: Blending behind glass problems

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Yuppers....everything above makes sense to me also. Smith's cream (which I have and use) is NEVER used with one-shot. Just too "fat" a mixture. A few drops of linseed oil is all you should need to keep it open long enuf to work in all the various methods and techniques described
vance galliher
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Re: Blending behind glass problems

Post by vance galliher »

Hi Doug,
If not one shot (enamel).......with what ? I used to mix it 50/50 with all enamels for smalts adhesive
and sometimes with one shot paint as an extender. I now us holdfast smalt adhesive for smalts. But why not one shot ?...other than the growing list of why not to use one shot.
vance
dimensional and glass art signs
http://www.vancegallihersigns.com
vance galliher
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Re: Blending behind glass problems

Post by vance galliher »

(.........wish this thing had a edit button)
after rereading I see that "too fat" is the reason. But what if it's done sparingly ?
vance
dimensional and glass art signs
http://www.vancegallihersigns.com
Ron Percell
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Re: Blending behind glass problems

Post by Ron Percell »

Erik,
I believe it's painted on too thick, notice how it looks like a palate that had extra paint on it that dried and wrinkled up.

Vance,
"too fat" might reference thickness not necessary in this case, where as Doug mentioned Linseed oil, in which I agree with and use, is much closer to the consistancy of the Enamels your using. Smiths Cream will work in small amounts (5-10%) to keep enamel open while blending.

Make sure to do some testing with this new creature called One Shot after so many reformulations, It's not what dad bought with me in tow at thier warehouse back door in the 60's.

Good Luck
Danny Baronian
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Re: Blending behind glass problems

Post by Danny Baronian »

Vance,

there is an edit button. When logged in, bottom right is 'edit' to the left of the 'quote' button.

As far as smalts adhesive, a friend was having failure with smith's cream and switched to epoxy years ago. Never had a problem since.

Using epoxy for adhering smalts, you can also mix in any type of oil based paint to the epoxy to color the background as a base for smalts.
Danny Baronian
Baronian Mfg.
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Roderick Treece
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Re: Blending behind glass problems

Post by Roderick Treece »

This is a simple math problem

2 of the best workshops on reverse back painted glass signs X 3 of the best teachers of the craft in the world + 1000s of dollars spent = Not paying attention ( Again) and rushing things (Again).
erik winkler
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Re: Blending behind glass problems

Post by erik winkler »

Hey hey Roderick, easy easy....
I was taught exactly to use this mixture and it was not done in a rush.
The first thinly applied paint mixture took at least 24 hours to dry. After that I used a thicker layer of the same mixture.

I think Ron is exactly right, because I noticed that the paint in my palate that had extra paint on it that dried and wrinkled up also.
The paint was to thick, because it did not dry enough after 24 hours.

So the problem is AGAIN (I hear a lot of people complain recently about this paint) One Shot paint:
1. The paint was painted on thinly to let it dry.
2. The mixture was made exactly how I was taught on one of the workshop.
3. The paint was soo transparent when it came out of the can you could not call it a paint that goes in one go, it needs at least two coats to be opaque.

So the first layer of paint had to dry for at least 4 to 5 days and then a second layer.
That is not taking time for a "first quality" paint, it is a pain.
But at the moment no other way I guess.

To all who gave me advise: Thanks!

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
Larry White
Posts: 1213
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

Re: Blending behind glass problems

Post by Larry White »

Japan color with Smith's Cream, blendable and dry in a day.

Backing coat Japan color, with no Smith's Cream, dry in a couple hours.

That seems like an easy equation.
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