making angel gilding more "yellow"

Judith Trezza · Post by **Judith Trezza** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:32 am

Hello all,
I am working on a restoration project involving silvered/mirrored, yellow float glass. It has proved impossible to find smoothe float glass that has the yellow tint I need so I am looking for alternatives. Originally the client thought this was angel gilding but when I gave her the angel gilded sample it was too pale for her taste. When I silvered the yellow glass that is available through stained glass suppliers it was too yellow. Does anyone have any tricks to make angel gilding appear more "yellow". This has been a 5 month search- any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Judith Trezza

Post by **Danny Baronian** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:08 pm

Judith,

I think any attempts to gild over colored glass will be overpowered by the glass unless it is a slight tint. Try a test by tinting the water size with yellow aniline dye. Aniline dyes are usually available at art supplies or wood working supplies.

Guessing from your question, and the clients comment on angel gilding, I assume your leafing the project rather than solution gilding. What type of gold are you using? There is everything from 12k to 24k leaf, 12 being silver in appearance to 24 as the brightest gold. The quality and depth of the gild also depends on how well the gold is applied, as well as the number of gilds. Glass usually requires at least 2 gilds.

What you back the gild with will also affect color and depth.

Have you tried angel gilding, and if so have you tried adjusting the application? By double or triple gilding the piece you can get an extremely deep gold, and by diluting the solution with water you can get a pale gold.

And...... what exactly are you trying to match - gold or silver? Angel gilding refers specifically to solution gilding of gold, silvering the application of silver.

Danny

Kent Smith · Post by **Kent Smith** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:23 pm

After talking with Sarah this weekend, a richer gild will result when angel gilding by backing with copper solution instead of silver or double gold. Just a suggestion, but copper has been used in leaf to make it darker and richer in color for years.

Kelly Thorson · Post by **Kelly Thorson** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:08 am

Making angel gilding more "yellow" is a bit abstract. Perhaps if you could access a pantone metallic chart it would help others visualize what you are trying to achieve.... canary, lemon, marigold?

If I'm reading your post correctly you are trying to match a piece of tinted yellow glass that has been mirrored. There are a number of suppliers of glass over the web, although you sound like you have exausted all the venues, have you tried www.delphiglass.com. I suspect that you would probably have more luck with finding the right tint initially than trying to change the colour of gold. I did a piece with gold backed with copper (like Kent suggested), but it made for a more rosy colour (basically a more coppery gold) , you sound like maybe you are looking for more of a lemony colour.
How big is the piece you need to do? Have you talked to anyone about the possibility of firing a glaze onto regular float glass and mirroring that? I'm not sure if it is possible or not.

One other option might be to look into some of the glass used for architectural purposes. Float glass is coloured yellow using either cerium, chromium, nickel or cadmium sulphide for UV reasons. I'm not sure how dark it gets, but you see office buildings with gold windows. Perhaps that glass would give you a closer match.

It sounds like one of those projects that has eaten up more time than you can ever hope to be compensated for. Hopefully you have learned lots along the way.

Good luck.

Judith Trezza · Post by **Judith Trezza** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:07 am

Hello,
Thank you for your responses.
I guess I should have pre-empted my post with "I have been a professional gilder for 1o years-including glass gilding, and working with angel gilding, silvering, copper etc. for 2 years." My project isn't leaf it's chemical gilding on glass. You were all so good at describing everything precisely, kudos!
The clients mother bequethed these 2 tables with sunflower yellow float glass inlays, all different sizes but approx. 3" W x 6", 12"and 34" L x 1/8". In addition there is an octagon top with each of the 8 sides measuring 32", 1/4" thick. They are all attached with hardware. The glass peices have cracked and oystered around the hardware and corners over time. She would like the peices replaced to "appear the way they did in childhood" The color of this rare, absolutely smoothe glass is approximately sunflower yellow. 24 kt gold leaf was not yellow enough and the client was not happy with using leaf instead of the chemical process anyway. I will look into the suggestions here- Again, Thank YOu for your responses. Judith

Kent Smith · Post by **Kent Smith** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:34 am

I guess I did not understand what you were really seeking. Try American Float Glass, afg.com they are the big guys and search for other sources of float glass. There are a few local small suppliers that could fill your need.

Doug Bernhardt · Post by **Doug Bernhardt** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:42 pm

I might be way out of line and have no way to see what the actual example is, but this sounds very much like silver stain...would be really terrific to see a couple of photo's. The only thing I have ever seen that is a transparent yellow and not a solid gild is that.

Patrick Mackle · Post by **Patrick Mackle** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:03 pm

Doug Bernhardt wrote:I might be way out of line and have no way to see what the actual example is, but this sounds very much like silver stain...would be really terrific to see a couple of photo's. The only thing I have ever seen that is a transparent yellow and not a solid gild is that.

Doug may be on to something here. If you could take one of the original pieces and very near the edge, so as not to damage the piece) scribe a cut into the leafed surface with a diamond pointed stylis. If the scribe line is deep enough to pass through the gold AND any silver stain that may have been applied, the scribe line will appear CLEAR when held to a light. That would prove that the piece was made by first silver staining clear glass, and then applying the gold. Silver stain penetrates glass with some depth, so be sure to remove enough of the surface to reveal any clear glass.
Keep us informed, more ideas may follow.

Pat

Judith Trezza · Post by **Judith Trezza** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:18 am

Hello everyone,
Thank you so much again for your help. A nice little story came out of this one. The client decided to go with an amber glass that wasn't quite flat, it was rolled glass so one sie had impressions of this. After chemically silvering the glass the reflected image appeared as an out of focus photograph. I wasn't happy but the project would soon be over, I just thought " You can't win them all", and resigned to the defeat.
When I went to my glass guys to pick up the "wrong" glass, Bernie, the grandfather of this 3rd generation glass shop was curious about my project. I explained my dilemma, he looked at the original piece for a few seconds and said " wait here young lady" and shuffled off to an unknown room in the back. 10 minutes later he came out with a beautiful piece of yellow float glass that was perfectly smoothe and an exact match! I could've kissed him. I took it back to my studio, cut up what I needed- just barely having everything I required, silvered it with silvering chemicals from Angel Gilding Inc. and the match was undetectable. My client was so happy that I perserveered and that the table was restored to the condition she remembered as a child. That was the greatest reward for everyone.
Keep up the good work. It's great to have this forum at our disposal!
Judith

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