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Signmaking 101: Making large ovals

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

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Mike Jackson
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Signmaking 101: Making large ovals

Post by Mike Jackson »

Before the computer, making ovals was pretty darned hard. In the old days, I used the string and two push pins technique as described in the LeBlanc book, but that always gave a bit of a slippy oval due to string tension and stretch.

We don't do many large signs here in Jackson Hole, but back when I did some big panels I let the old SignMaker III help out. I let the plotter slice a vertical and horizontal line in a piece of rubylith, then the oval at the correct proportion centered over the guidelines. I cut the oval at a size that would fit in my overhead projector. Using an Xacto and a straitedge, I widened the vertical and horizontal guidelines a tiny bit so the light would project onto the sign panel or large piece of pounce paper. After weeding away the excess ruby off the outside of the oval, I could project a very large oval with great accuracy. The horizontal and vertical guidelines are critical elements of working with ovals. Of course, it was possible to make a few extra inside ovals for borders and so forth.

Now, we can do all the oval layouts in a DTP or Signmaking program, but the basic process still works. You can also print the design on clear acetate and eliminate the ruby process, but at the time it was a very workable process.

For mid sized masonite templates, I would pen draw the oval out on regular paper with the necessary center lines. Depending on the size, I might have two or three panels. After the pen plots, we spray glued the paper plots onto sheets of masonite and proceeded to cut them out with a band saw or sabre saw. With a little careful sanding, I ended up with some fairly accurate ovals for traditional signs.

Now, you just need a CNC router to make the same ovals, but for the group of us lacking a router, some of the old techniques can come in handy.
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
joe cieslowski
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Post by joe cieslowski »

Well, I'm stuck in the past.....

I use the method you first noted. I use flax string....no stretching.

The formula for finding the pin spread is....

C (the pin spread)= the square root of A squared - B squared

A is the long length of the oval and B is the short length.

It doesn't really take a long time...big or small.

Joe
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
Dave Draper
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Post by Dave Draper »

And...

One thing you can do, if it is a very large oval, is make 1/4 of the oval. Thus by flipping it and drawing around it, flipping it and drawing, you can effectly make a giant oval and not have a very big pattern.

To make some ovals without a string and pen, the alternative way the old timers taught me was to make a paper rectangle the exact size the oval would occupy. Example: oval is going to be 3 x 6 feet. Cut a piece of paper 3 x 6 feet, fold it in half lenght wise, then fold it width wise.

Next draw an arc on the paper and cut on that line with scissors, then unfold the paper and whoop te doo...perfect oval.

Now, matching an existing oval to reproduce an exact matching oval requires a little geometry review...and if I remember correctly, whithout looking it up on a geometric web site or schoolbook somehere, the process is thus:

draw a rectangle the exact size of the original oval, draw a center verticle line and horizontal center line through the rectangle. ( your drawing should look like a big rectangle with 4 smaller equal size rectangles inside)

Next, measuring from the center of the rectangle on the horizontal line to the left ( or right) find the point on the horizontal line that is equal to the distance from the top center of the oval down to the horizontal line. When the diagonal line is equal in length to the point on the horizontal line, that is where you would put a pin.

To visualize this, think of a number "4" ; the diagonal line of the 4 should be equal in length to the horizontal line that intersects that diagonal line back to the intersection of the verticle line of the 4. Repete the process and place a pin on the other side the same distance and stretch a string between the pins that is taught when the string is touching the top center of the rectangle.

I forgot the formula, which is by far much easier than my long winded explanation. Maybe someone else can "pin" down the correct formula.
Rick Sacks
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Post by Rick Sacks »

Over the years I have purchased several designs of elipsographs, ranging in size fron desktop to 4 x 8. The neatest one is an improved model that I coppied from one made by Frank Maesen. I made an MDO base with perpendicular dadoes 1/2" wide. I made a swing arm with a series of holes down the center and made some tracks that mounted with bolts through the holes into tracks that glided in the dados. I can adjust the placement of the guides to determine the size of the oval. On the end of this swing arm is where I can mount a router. Using a spiral bit, I can cut ovals and circles that don't have flat spots and have clean edges.
Thanks Frank.
Mendocino, California
"Where the redwoods meet the Sea"
Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson »

Here's a link showing the "string" method:
http://www.inthewoodshop.org/methods/wwc03k.shtml

Image
This is next to last image. The other ones show how to find the placement of the pins.

Just follow the diagrams!
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
Rick Sacks
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:17 pm
Location: Mendocino, California
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Post by Rick Sacks »

I didn't look up the link, but we always made the string into a complete loop around the three nails.

1/2 the major axis is measured from the top or bottom of the minor axix to find where it intersects the major axis. That is the nail placement. No mathematical calculations needed.

On walls, we always used wire that wouldn't stretch.
Mendocino, California
"Where the redwoods meet the Sea"
Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson »

Rick,
I didn't catch the string being tied on the pins, but it would work doing the lower half and then the top half. Normally, we put the third pin at the point where the pencil is illustrated, then tie the string around all three. The bottom pin is then removed and the pencil slides around the triangle created by the thread.

Going back to my original post, this is stil a valid method, but it has generally been replaced by technology. Oval matte cutters and router assisted oval cutters use the same principle.
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
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